actually when i was doing it for -- well, i did it for ford in '76, but then again for george w. bush in 2000, i had a couple of calls from prominent politicians who would say, it would really help me in my race back home if i was on the list. then somebody could go leak the fact that they were on the list. but that was the big list. it's easy to get on the big list. the tough part is the small list, the one that's really under active consideration and the test to get on that small list has to be, is this person capable of being president of the united states? that's usually a very, very short list. >> steve: on that point, he also told abc news that john mccain made a mistake in picking sarah palin because she had only been governor of the great state of alaska for two years, didn't have enough preparation to be ready to do the big job on the first day. >> gretchen: and john mccain will be coming up live on our show and brian will ask him that question, how he feels about dick cheney saying that. >> brian: did he just eliminate marco rubio, by the way? >> gretchen: obviously he'